Saturday, September 26, 2009

Summer's Over

As I sit here, early on a Saturday morning, enjoying my coffee(no more tea for me) it hits me that summer is over. The weather has been gorgeous so I haven' t really paid attention to the calendar. It is still dark and chilly-I'm debating about whether to turn the heat on! I'm thinking back to what a great summer we had. I joked a lot in June about our summer plans being soccer, soccer and more soccer! It was so much more.

We experienced Yosemite National Park for the first time and hopefully not the last. Wow! It is so incredibly beautiful. The weekend was spent enjoying nature and family. My cousin's wedding was the perfect opportunity to spend time with my extended family. We don't get much chance to do that as we are spread all over. Meeting new family members and reconnecting with old ones made the trip memorable. Getting to see Yosemite was a huge bonus. Most importantly it was about spending time with my Grandma and watching the kids with her. It was our last weekend with her. She passed away in August. We were lucky to have that time with her and all of my family.

Next came the Rock n Roll half marathon-was I crazy? Looking back I'm not sure what I was thinking other than I had decided to do it & I was too stubborn to quit! I think I mananged to train on determination alone cause I sure as hell didn't have the energy. Terry was there every step of the way, usually a few feet in front of me, encouraging & pushing me to the finish. We did it, running slowly the whole way. Thanks to great friends for being there to share the moment. Can't wait till next year-shouldn't be too hard to beat my time!

Of course there were lots of BBQs with friends and kids fun. While I won't get into detail, I will say we have the best group of friends.

Nicholas went to Cascades Camp again year but this time it was for a week! We were a little nervous but really excited to have him go. The house was much quieter with only Alyssa & she missed her brother. He came home so filled with stories that he didn't stop talking about it for more that an hour. The only thing I wish for next year is that he changes his shirt! Supposedly he showered & changed the rest of his clothes. We bought him a camp shirt & he lived in it all week! Yuck!

Alyssa had gymnastics and soccer camps this summer. She loves anything where she can be social! Her birthday was one of her highlights. They are allowed one Chuck E Cheese party & this was her year. What a blast! She also talked us into a sleepover with her 2 best friends. We all survived.

Chicago was what we looked forward too all summer. In August the kids flew by themselves to see my parents & sister's family. Nicholas has flown several times by himself but this was Alyssa's first time. I think we all were excited and nervous. I wondered whether they would fight or spill on some poor adult that had to sit by them, figured they'd both have to go to the bathroom as soon as the fasten seatbelt sign was on. They were great, no fighting, nothing left on the plane. They did spill but fortunately it was in the airport.

The week was packed with activities. The kids and grandparents were exhausted when it was over. There was a night at a waterpark, boating, tubing, jetskiing, fishing and lots of time with their cousins. A trip they will remember for a long time. Terry & I spent the week enjoying our vacation at home. A whole week without the kids, what will we do? It went by so fast, like all vacations. We spent the time eating, drinking and spending money, just like if we'd actually gone somewhere!

At the start of summer, I was almost dreading soccer. Nicholas started playing select this year for the first time. I thought it would take over all of our time. I can't believe how much fun it is. We are lucky to be on a team with some good friends but also some fun new friends. The tournaments were so exciting. The boys finished 2nd in their brackett in one and narrowly missed the championship game in the other. Wow! It was great watching them come together as a team. I can't wait to see how the season unfolds.

Our summer ended as it started, a BBQ with good friends. I know fall will be just as great as summer. I may still whine about how much time soccer takes but other than getting up early on a Saturday mornings, I love it. There is nothing better than watching the kids doing activities they love! Now I know why my parents sat through all those basketball games & track meets.

Hopefully this was worth the wait. I'll try not to take 4 months to write again. If you have time check out the Loverich Family blog, Johnene's post about the Miley Cyrus concert is incredible. She is a gifted writer. My thoughts on the concert were similar but there is no way I could write them as well! Enjoy!

Saturday, May 23, 2009

Norwegian Dancing

Here are a couple of Alyssa's perfomances. The videos are each about a minute & a half. Most of you will be bored so skip it. It seemed to be the easiest way to share with family!

Viking Fest




Last weekend was Poulsbo's annual Viking Fest. It's the usual small town festival with rides, food and a very long parade. The adults have discovered that the parade is much better with beverages! This year it was mojitos! Perfect on a warm sunny day! My parents & nephew, Jake, came out to enjoy the fun with us.

The weekend started & ended with Nick's baseball games. His team is having a great year, only losing one game. The first was a blowout on a chilly evening. Grandma & Grandpa loved it. Sunday afternoon we played the only team that beat us. It was a great game which we won. Nicholas had his first triple of the year! Too bad Grandma & Grandpa had gone home that morning!

Alyssa was so excited about Viking Fest this year because she was in the parade. She has been doing Norwegian dancing all year. They performed on the waterfront Friday evening to kick off Viking Fest. She was great! She couldn't wait for the parade. I don't think she realized how far they'd be walking! The little kids are so cute in their bunads!

Of course the rides & carnival games are the best part for the kids! Jake was determined to hang with his older cousin Nick! They went on every spinning ride and begged to waste money on the games! Why do they think winning some dinky stuffed animal is so cool? I just don't get it!

The best part of Viking Fest for me, aside from watching the kids have fun, was running & finishing the 5 mile road race. I managed to run the whole thing and finish in 55 minutes. It felt great! Terry left me in the dust and finished in 43 minutes. He asures me that won't happen when we do the half marathon next month! Nicholas ran the mile race and is ready to beat his time next year. Alyssa finished 1st in the kids dash.

I always look forward to Viking Fest weekend but I'm happy it only happens once a year!

Friday, May 8, 2009

All Done

I've been done for a week. It feels so good. Sorry it's taken so long to post. I thought we were busy while I was going to radiation but the last week has been crazy. I'm not sure how I had time to have cancer!

Last Thursday was Girls Night Out in Poulsbo. Thanks to Johnene, Kristin, Tarra, Kristen, Angela, Julie & Sherry for taking me out to celebrate. We had a great dinner at Burrata Bistro. It's a great new Italian restaurant in Poulsbo.

Overall I feel pretty good. I managed to get through radiation with only mild side effects. The burns aren't too bad. Everyone keeps telling me I have a good tan. It was a very expensive tanning bed! I have some irritation to my throat & esophagus. It feels like a sore throat until I forget and eat something spicy. I've been told it will take a few weeks to heal, maybe longer if I don't pay attention to what I eat. I'm still tired. Some days I feel great and forget to rest. The next day is really tough. I'm trying to remember to take it easy. I have 10 days until I go back to work. Hopefully I'll be ready!

I'd like to thank all of you for helping us get through the last 5 months. I knew that we had some good friends but I guess I didn't realize how good & how many until I got sick. There is no way I would have been able to do this without help. I've ben complemented on how well I dealt with all of this. I would have been a mess without all of the support from family & friends. Terry & I are extremely fortunate to have all of you. Thank you seems so inadequate but that's all I can do.

Wednesday, April 8, 2009

Here are a few pictures from baseball and our trip. The video at the bottom is us telling the kids about the trip.


April Fool's

Things have been a little hectic at our house in the past few weeks. Last Wednesday, April Fools Day, we surprised the kids with a trip to Phoenix. They were really excited when we woke them to break the news. Then they remembered what day it was. Terry & I had to convince them that we really were going. I don't think they were sure until we actually got on the plane.

The trip was a blast. We went to the last M's spring training game. It was pretty cool. The kids managed to get a few autographs. Alyssa got Griffey's, not sure she really understands how cool that is though. We spent the rest of the trip sitting by the pool. It was sunny and hot every day, absolutely perfect! We stayed at Squaw Peaks Resort. I strongly recommend it if you have kids. Floating down the lazy river with a maragrita was my favorite part. The kids loved all of the fun activities they had at the pool. Nicholas won the water slide races twice and Alyssa won the cannon ball contest for the smallest splash!

It was the break that we needed. It was nice to reconnect as a family. A great way to relax before starting radiation.

I was supposed to start this week but now I'm not sure. I have my next planning appointment on Monday. Apparently the first plan was going to cause too much lung damage so it is taking longer to figure it out. I'm all for having the least amount of lung damage possible!!!! Terry & I signed up for the Seattle Rock n Roll half marathon at the end of June. Now I might have an excuse for walking!

We also started baseball games this week. With both kids playing and Terry coaching T ball, things are pretty busy. Nicholas' first game was Monday. He's playing triple A, which is kid pitch. It was a good game with our team winning. Nicholas had 2 doubles and then was called out looking by his own Dad! Terry had to fill in as umpire. Nicholas didn't seem to mind but I thought he should have walked him.

Alyssa's had her first T ball game last night. What a riot! It is so much fun to watch. Terry is coaching 14 little kids! He has so much more patience than I ever will. I'm pretty sure Alyssa is only playing because we bought her pink glove and bat! She had fun and thinks she hit a home run. The last batter in each inning runs all the way around the bases!

I hope to add a few pictures when I get my camera downloaded. As much as I wanted to get going with radiation, it's nice to have a few more days of feeling good. I still have some fatigue but otherwise feel great.

Tuesday, March 24, 2009

NO MORE CHEMO!!!!!

This will be short & sweet as we are on our way out to celebrate! My scan was clear. I'm done with chemo!!! My PICC line is out! Today has been awesome! Thank you all for your thoughts & prayers. It means a lot to have so much support.

More to follow...

Tuesday, March 17, 2009

Going Crazy

Friday I had what will hopefully be my last chemo. Johnene & Kristin came along for moral support and entertainment! We even managed to go out to lunch with Erika to celebrate. At the very least, I've gotten to the point of repeating my scans to check on my progress. That alone seems worth celebrating. My CT/PET scan is scheduled for March 24th. Only one more week to wait. Time is moving very slowly. I know the results will be better than my first one, but as to whether the cancer will be gone, we'll just have to wait & see. I'm hoping to move on to radiation and be done with chemo. Not that I'm really excited about radiation, but at least it will feel like progress.

I am much more tired after this round of chemo. I've been very good about doing nothing this time. My only activity for the last 4 days has been a trip to the grocery store. Never thought that could be so much fun. I'm getting a little crazy and definitely driving Terry there! While the fatigue seems to be worse, the aches & pains are not. I probably shouldn't be complaining because it could be so much worse!

I've got a pedicure planned for the end of the week. Seems like a great way to recover. Hopefully there won't be snow on the ground! My Dad is coming to visit us on Sunday, which we are all looking forward to. Alyssa is probably the most excited, not sure if it's because Grandpa is coming or that he's bringing her first American Girl Doll!

Happy St Patrick's Day to all.

Saturday, March 7, 2009

One More Chemo Left....

I'm a week out from my 5th chemo and now I feel pretty good. I have one more scheduled chemo day and then I repeat my scan. Hopefully that will be it for the chemo. I am ready to be done. I don't think anyone will want to be around me if I need more, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

As I said in my last post, I'm getting impatient! Which led me to do a few stupid things this week, making my recovery longer. I'm going crazy at home, so I made a few too many plans this week!!!! Poor Terry bears the brunt of my crabbiness when I don't feel well or when I push it too far. Fortunately for Terry, I cancelled most of my plans after exhausting myself. It could have been worse.

On Tuesday, 4 days after chemo, I thought it would be a good idea to go over to Seattle for a class at Children's. How hard could it be to sit in a class for a few hours? It was great to actually do something and see lots of my friends at work. That being said, I was totally exhausted after spending all day in Seattle. I added several days to my recovery this time. I'd like to say I've learned my lesson, but we'll just have to wait until next time to see.

Tuesday, February 24, 2009

Update


Just wanted to thank my Mom for a great visit. It was shorter than we would have liked but fun. Nicholas talked Grandma into a game of Fantasy Football monopoly that lasted the whole weekend. Hopefully now I won't have to play for a while! Mom, Alyssa and I enjoyed a beautiful sunny day walking around Poulsbo and shopping. Alyssa had fun trying on shoes with my Mom. They both have expensive taste! It was really nice to have my Mom out here to take of me for a few days! Now I have a clean house and a stocked freezer!!!
Acupuncture is helping a lot. I have finally progressed to only 2 times per week. I feel like I spend all of my time managing & going to appointments! I don't seem to be getting anyworse after each chemo which is nice. I am definitely getting impatient. I want it to move along faster. I find myself wishing for another chemo day just so I can get that much closer to the end. I realize it has only been a couple of months but on the days when I feel like crap I just want to be done. Patience is not really my thing. Alyssa seems to be getting tired of it too. Last week she asked when my cancer would be done. When I asked what she meant, she said will it be done in February or March? We finally figured out she was talking about chemo!
Thanks for all the great meals over the last few weeks. Last week several of our friends from church came over to help with a few projects. It was a huge help to us. Thank you for giving up a Sunday afternoon to help out. It is difficult for me to ask for help but so appreciated.
My next chemo day is Friday. Hopefully it will go as smoothly as the last four. Only 2 left until I get my scans.

Sunday, February 15, 2009

Only 2 more chemo days!



Chemo went well Friday. I had fun catching up with Wendy, a good friend from work. I feel pretty good so far. Sunday through Tuesday are usually the hardest days. I think acupuncture and herbs are making a huge difference in the way I feel. I am a little tired throughout the 2 weeks but not too bad. I'm sure some of it has to do with me trying to do too much when I feel good.

Sorry I haven't posted for 2 weeks but I'm not getting up at 5am as much and then I never seem to find the time to do it. I guess I'm not quite ready to go to day shift at work! That may take a few more years.

I want to give a huge thanks to my coworkers who have donated annual leave. That is such a tremendous help to us. It helps relieve some of the stress of not working. Thank you for being so generous with your time.

I'm looking forward to my Mom visting next week. It's difficult being so far from your family when things are challenging. We have a great group of family and friends here but it will be nice to see my family.

Thanks for all the great meals over these past 2 weeks. The evenings seem to be my most tired time so it's a relief not to have to think about meals everyday. Terry's a great guy but not much of a cook.

Friday, February 13, 2009

Saturday, January 31, 2009

Chemo is half done....maybe


I had another "fun" day at chemo with good friends and a good nurse. Thanks to Laura and Christine for keeping me entertained. The day went so fast.

I just finished number 3 and right now I have 6 scheduled. After 6 then I'll have another CT/PET scan. Depending on the results, I may be done with chemo and on to radiation. It feels great to have come this far already. I can't believe it's only been a month & a half since I was diagnosed.

I feel pretty good right now. Up at 5am again but I feel asleep at 8 last night so I guess I've had enough sleep. Usually I don't start to feel crappy until Sunday. Should be a low key superbowl for us this year! First one in a long time, good thing I don't care about either team. Sorry if there are any cardinal or steeler fans reading this.

This past week was pretty busy so it will be nice to lay around for a few days. I try to do as much as possible when I feel good and this week was no exception. With several friends birthdays this week, there was a lot of celebrating. Thursday I was fortunate to have two of my coworkers stop by. Sara J brought over some goodies. I love the hat & scarf. Thanks to the Sunday-Monday NICU crew for the card & gift card. Terri A stopped by and took me out to lunch. It was great to catch up on work. I would also like to give a huge thanks to everyone who has donated leave. I can't tell you much that means to us. Thank you all.

Thank you all for your comments. I love reading them. Most of the time I have a pretty positive attitude but they give me such a boost.

Thanks for the great dinners this past week as well. Everything has been so good!

The 2 blogs I have on my blog list are for Ramah Ryan. She is a friend and coworker who is training for a the Lavaman Triathlon with Team in Training. Team in Training raises money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. She has done this for th past 6 years. If anyone is interested in donating to this good cause then check out the link to her training page.

Monday, January 26, 2009

Buzz Cut


Last week I was upset about losing my hair. It was really tough when it first started coming out. By the end of the week, I was so grossed out by all of the shedding that I decided it was time. Saturday afternoon with friends and chocolate martinis, I got my first & hopefully only buzz cut. My friend, Johnene was the lucky one who got to cut & shave all my hair off. I think she was more nervous about it than I was. It actually looks ok, feels a little strange though. The only problem is all of the gray hair!!!! If it wasn't going to fall out, I'd have to get it colored! Of course with Alyssa rubbing my head all the time, I'm sure I'll be bald by the end of the week!

Thanks to Terry and my friends for a great weekend. This was just one more reminder of what great friends we have!

I learned two things this weekend. My head will look ok bald and I totally suck at guitar hero!

Friday, January 23, 2009

Update

I'm not sure why I thought my oncologist would be wrong but let's say I hoped he would be. He has told me all along that the effects of chemo are cummulative. I was hoping that maybe I would be the exception to that. I still don't have any nausea which is great. I actually took less meds this time. The anti-nausea meds can make you sleepy. The fatigue is much worse this time. I'm not as sleepy, but I just don't have any energy. It's getting better but I definitely feel like a couch potato!
The acupuncture seems to be helping with some of the aches & pains. After three treatments this week, I feel like a pin cushion!
I have been on a roller coaster of emotions this week. Most of the time I can be pretty positive about all of this. On Tuesday, my hair started falling out! I guess I wasn't ready for that. I'm shedding worse than the dogs! I have been trying to decide when to shave my head. I'm having trouble committing to a date but there will be chocolate martinis involved!

Sunday, January 18, 2009

Round 1 of Chemo is done


So now I've finished round 1 of chemo. Each round or cycle is 2 chemo days. Friday I went with 2 of my girlfriends and for lack of a better word it was actually fun. I'm sure the ativan helped a little as well. We got to make fun of silly wigs. I don't want a wig but I think shopping for one with friends would be a riot! No, we were not making fun of people wearing wigs, just the ones in catalogs!

But seriously, I can't thank Johnene and Kristin enough for giving up an entire day to spend with me a chemo. It means more than I can express. I'm thankful for all of the great friends we have.

So far I feel pretty good, just tired. My 1st acupuncture treatment was helpful, although I felt good that day. The next 2 will be a real test of how it will help. My acupuncturist seems very hopeful that he can relieve most of my side effects. I just have to learn to relax a little more. I found it difficult to lay there for 30 minutes with needles in me. I wasn't sure what I could move or not move. It should be easier next time since I probably won't feel so good at the start of it.

I'm working on the coffee part. I think one cup a day is reasonable. It certainly wasn't coffee that gave me Hodgkins. I'm tired of having all this stuff taken away from me. Thanks for all the great tea ideas. I've tried some and they're not too bad. Thanks to Terri who brought me over a whole basket of tea! I'm willing to try just about anything but I can't completely give up all my bad habits either!

I talked to my oncologist, Dr. Aboulafia, on Friday. He presented my case to the Tumor Board and we have a new plan. I'm going to have 3 cycles(6 chemo days) and then another CT/PET scan. At that point we'll get together with the radiation oncologist and decide what's next. It will depend on the scan results but most likely I'll need more chemo or radiaiton, even if it is clear. He has said all along that the best thing would be to do both. It would be nice to be done with the chemo at the point. Although radiation comes with lots of long term side effects that seem very scary right now. Right now, I'm happy to be done with the first cycle. Every little step counts.

I love having my haircut short. Makes me wonder why I didn't do it sooner. It's so easy. I hope I have some time to enjoy it. They say it could start falling out soon but nobody knows for sure.

It was great to go into work the other day, seeing all my coworkers that I missed. Using my brain for something besides cancer research. Next time I'll come in later to catch the night shift crew. I hope to be able to go to a staff meeting or 2 and maybe IQ Day. This past week it was really hard not being at work because I felt pretty good. It's the only really big thing that has been taken away so far. It's amazing what a big chunk of my life is temporaily gone. I love being able to spend so much time with my family but I miss my work family.

Thanks for all the meals and help. Alyssa is loving all the playdates! Thanks to our secret pizza delivery person. That was a very nice surpise.

Time to give the dogs some attention. They are on my crazy schedule too.

Tracie

Wednesday, January 14, 2009

What, no coffee?


Yesterday was a very interesting day for me. It started early, as they all seem to now. I had my first visit to the acupuncturist! I had decided over the weekend that maybe it would be a good idea to help relieve some of the chemo side effects. After filling out a VERY long questionaire that made me feel like I was pretty unhealthy, even without cancer, I went in for my evaluation. No needles yet! This part was fine until we got to the part about how much coffee I drink. I think she was shocked and I had lied just a little. Up to this point I thought most of her suggestions sounded pretty good. She asked if I could give up the coffee. I'm sure you can all imagine what went through my head!!!

So here I sit updating my blog, at 5:30am, drinking tea! I decided yesterday that it probably was a good I idea. Cleaned out my coffee pot and put it away! I'm not going cold turkey! I think a single cup from my french press will be ok for a few days. I found some good tea. I'm open to suggestions. The nice part is that I don't have to give up the caffeine.

Despite all of this, I'm really excited to try acupuncture.

The best part of my day was getting my hair cut. I was excited and a little bit nervous. I've never had really short hair. Fortunately I had two great friends along for support, pictures and wine later! Thanks Johnene & Kristin! I was in good hands. Susie is awesome! It's weird not having any hair but I love it. She did a great job.

Today, I'm looking forward to going to work. I miss my coworkers and work so much. I'm actually excited about going to a training class! It's been tough dealing with not going to work, especially when I feel good. Thanks for all of your comments and emails.

Thursday, January 8, 2009

I feel good!

Just a quick update...

I seem to be past the worst of the chemo side effects. I actually feel pretty good. The fatigue is getting much better, even stayed up until 10pm last night. Of course, I was up shopping online at 5:30am but oh well. At least one of us is working!

Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Update

I guess I'll start with the positive, there seems to be no problem with nausea. The meds are awesome and as long as I stay away from Swatdy's(thanks Jennifer for that advice) I think it will be ok. I feel great in the mornings, big shock for a night person!
The fatigue is the biggest challenge so far. I haven't made awake past 8:30 yet. It's tough when you can't outlast the kids! I'm trying to remember to pace myself and not do too much when I feel good. It's a weird feeling to be so tired all the time. I guess I'll have to get used to it. They say exercise helps. I'm heading to the gym today after the kids go to school. Maybe a little walk on the treadmill will help.
This week will be a bit challenging as Terry just left for Boston. I think it was pretty tough for him to go. This is the trip that got cancelled minutes before I was diagnosed. Nicholas says he's up for the challenge of taking care of the dogs. He wanted to get up at 6am to take care of them this morning! Hopefully I talked him out of that! He may be excited to learn he'll get to stay up later to let them out at night, anything for more TV at this point! Terry may be a little surprised when he comes back to the whole house being on my schedule!
So far we've been blessed with really great family & friends. I can't thank you enough. The food, help and well wishes have been amazing! Love the lucy clothes-thanks to Johnene & Kristin!
For my BFF's at work, I'm going down to have some coffee now. It's not quite the same as going down to Tully's but it'll have to do! Enjoy!

Saturday, January 3, 2009

Day 1 of chemo is done...

Me & the kids before leaving for chemo!

As most of you know, yesterday was my first day of chemo. First, I was scheduled to get a PICC line. For those of you who don't know, that is an IV that's inserted into my arm and then they thread the catheter up thru a big vein to get closer to the heart. Chemo is pretty toxic to your veins, so you want a good line. The procedure is supposed to take about 40 minutes, well 2 plus hours later, I had my PICC. Many attempts and finally changing arms all together were required. Apparently my veins decided they didn't want this foreign object in them & just clamped down everytime they tried. Fortunately, I had a persisstant RN & he finally got it. I spent all that time laying on an xray table wondering if it was going to work! I was already an hour late for my Dr and chemo appointments.

They were very excited to see me when we finally arrived for chemo. I had been pretty stressed about getting started, but by that point, I was so relieved at getting a line, the stress was gone. The beginning is quite an over-load of information, I thought I was pretty organized & then they dump all kinds of other stuff in your lap.

The biggest thing we learned is that they rate my chemo regime a 4 out 4 on the nausea scale. I'm thinking that's not good. They do however load you up with some pretty strong anti-nausea meds. So far so good! Actually getting the chemo is pretty uneventful. The first day is time consuming, as we had to wait for drugs and I had to have one test dose and then wait an hour to get started after that.

I felt pretty good when we left. I had a bag full of drugs and papers and a mile long list of appointments for the next month. Apparently there are lots of thing to do in between my chemo days! Fortunately some of them can be done over here at the Virginia Mason clinic.

We had a quick dinner with friends when we picked up our kids. It was a great dinner. Thanks Jags! Also a big thanks to Loverichs for taking care of the dogs!

I thought I'd spend some time with the kids when we got home, but I could hardly keep my eyes open! I went to bed at 7:30 and got up at 6:30am. Guess some of the anti- nausea meds really do cause drowsiness. So far this morning I feel great. I realize that may change, but I plan on getting some things done while I can.

Thanks for all of your comments, emails and phone calls. It is a huge help!!!! It means a lot to talk to all of you. It may take me a while to respond to emails, but I will. Thanks for the encouragement. I know lots of you want to help as well and belive me it will be needed.